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the phenomenon is a brand new

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documentary about ufos

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we're talking with the film's creator

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[Music]

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hello citizens and welcome to the first

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episode of our new show

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simply titled the rogue planet show i'm

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jason mcclellan

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and together with my fellow rogue

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planeteers we're bringing you news

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stories commentary and interviews

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related to the topics we love

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and that encompasses all the strange

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ufos the search for extraterrestrial

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life

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paranormal local lore and more

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today maureen elsberry and i interview

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our friend the filmmaker james fox

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james has created some of the best

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documentaries ever made about the ufo

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subject

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and he just released his latest offering

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titled

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james it is fantastic to see you my

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friend it has been too long

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and uh you know i'm excited to have you

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on today because we are talking about

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a brand new film from you you gotta say

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man this is a

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been a long time coming because we've

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been waiting on this thing you know you

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first

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started telling us about it back in 2013

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back when

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the working title was 701 and i mean

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this thing has really

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gone through a whole hell of a lot to

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get where it is today

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so if you wouldn't mind walk us through

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the story of how this whole thing came

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together

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and how the project changed over the

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years

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how much battery life do you have on

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your are your computers plugged in or

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give us the brief version i know this is

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an epic saga

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the entire thing but uh give us a

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condensed version

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this is gonna be a two drink minimum so

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no in all honesty i'll take you back to

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out of the blue um when i finished out

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of the blue i think i was like

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the better part of five years into it

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and i kept pushing because you have a

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certain vision of how you want something

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to be

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you know when you set out to do it and

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uh it just never quite i never quite got

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there without the blue

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and i remember this moment i'll never

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forget

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my partner boris was

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in fetal position on the ground crying

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and just sobbing and and

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looking totally defeated and his wife

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looks at me and she's like

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jesus guys james just movies you guys

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are

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you're killing my husband

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i mean i really was we were pushing

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pretty hard anyway i let

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i i just i got i you know that last push

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is pretty intense

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but i wasn't satisfied without the blue

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and and three years later i

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i owned it again and i decided to to

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revisit out of blue of course i had to

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get new power

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partners on on board because they were

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just like what are you crazy

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but you have a vision of how you want

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something to be and it takes a long time

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to

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i mean like

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and so i spent a couple more years on

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out of the blue i re-released it it was

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much better

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but i still wasn't happy um

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this film uh well then of course i had i

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know what i saw

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and a similar case i mean i sort of

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stepped it up i believe i stepped it up

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with i

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know what i saw some people might

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disagree but um

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when the film was done i still didn't

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feel satisfied

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and i

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i remember very distinctly when

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i sold it to a e it was going on history

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channel and my dad's like son you know

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what's going on

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i'm like i don't know dad i just i

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really feel like i let myself down a

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little bit

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and uh he's like well what are you

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talking about i was like well you know i

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had higher hopes of film

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it's going on history channel and he's

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like yeah but look at what you did do

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and i guess what i'm saying is uh this

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journey

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was the culmination of of three

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previous film projects learning from

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each

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film what i had done wrong what i wasn't

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satisfied with

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why it didn't reach its full potential

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why

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i didn't get to the point that i was i

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was aiming for

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and so uh you know i i went through a

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number of

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of producers of um partners

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um i ran out of money a whole bunch of

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times

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and i said i'm not going to settle for

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less like i if i don't have the money to

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do it right i'm going to wait until i do

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and and again that takes time and so um

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um i just kept pushing and pushing and

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pushing

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and even when we got a rough cut done a

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like i was getting you know like

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basically putting the pieces together

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and then of course the the a-tip uh on

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the front page of the new york times

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was like hit we never would have

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expected that and that added another

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couple years because we were like we got

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to go after this person

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i got this you know and so um

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here we are the better part of eight

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years later from concept to completion

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and uh it's coming out hope i didn't

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give you the long-winded version

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when you first told us about the film

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that it was going to be titled

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701 and it was going to be focused on

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these 701 cases of project blue book

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that were still unexplainable by the

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government

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and then now uh with the phenomenon

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you've

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much bigger dive

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into the history behind and then

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these modern day cases as you mentioned

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once the atip news came out

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that took on a whole new government

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angle so i guess uh

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i'm curious about the evolution like

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when did you

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look at it and say this just isn't

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focused on project blue book anymore

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this is this is turned into a whole

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new beast well the title 701 for us was

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symbolic of that residual

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core 10 or 15 of cases that just defined

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a

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we set out with 701 to just focus on

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project blueprint files

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because that wasn't the case at all we

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were we were already doing the rua

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zimbabwe case

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at the time and um so

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what happened was um without naming

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names

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there were some of my partners that

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wanted to do a hybrid of fictional eyes

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so they wanted to do like half fiction

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half fact

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sort of hybrid and i didn't want any

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part of it

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you know and we went back and forth and

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back and forth and finally we

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amicably parted ways and i went off with

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one of the producers and the other three

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producers went off

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to do their hybrid and they it looked as

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though they had funding from a

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from a billionaire which i was a little

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jealous about but

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i i didn't want to i didn't want to go

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that route and so

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uh they i think their project ended up

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kind of fizzling out a little

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bit i don't think they ever in fact i

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know they didn't get funding and i

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branched off and got new financial

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partners

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and continued my uh initial um

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you know pursuit of of of the producing

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the seminal documentary feature film

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all based on fact just full documentary

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no

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so there are some really cool things in

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this film and

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touching on on blue books we mentioned

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blue book

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one of my favorite things of course is

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the interviews with

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bill coleman and robert friend both

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people from project blue book and and

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you know maureen and i were fortunate to

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interview that both of them

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several years ago so it's very cool that

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you got the interviews with them

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in this film so what was it like for you

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interviewing these guys

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well i remember it was that it was more

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of a of a

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concept we were just forming the llc and

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kind of getting our

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whole strategy down when i was just

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adamantly saying we got to go get

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coleman he's in florida and i remember

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my investor at the time he's like

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everybody clue your jets here well

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we're going to put together a plan we're

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going to get the budget i'm like no no

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no

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you don't understand we got to go to

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this guy like this is really like every

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bit of my being was like

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now and uh finally i just made so much

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noise that he was like okay just go

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and off i went and got colonel coleman

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and what i found so fascinating about

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him

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is that you know he has this incredibly

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compelling

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you know encounter with this disc

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you know you know one of the most

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fascinating encounters i'd ever heard

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because

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proximity to the disc in broad daylight

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and the length of the

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the duration of the sighting was like

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nine minutes and he's chasing this thing

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and he's telling me this really dramatic

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story he's got these

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you know uh engineers from boeing and

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lockheed in the in the in the plane as

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well

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and they end up at treetop level at

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maximum continuous power

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and i'm like what does that mean he goes

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if i went any faster i would have blown

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up the motors

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we were at treetop level i thought i was

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going to hit this thing and i had to

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take evasive action but i couldn't

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turn the plane because the wings were

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going to hit the trees so i had to pull

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up first

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go up and around this thing and it was

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just like sitting there just going

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god this guy was a public spokesman for

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our public relations office for project

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blue book like whatever it was

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15 years later and and i just thought

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this is incredible and i was really

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shocked that that that

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his story that he never that no one had

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gotten a proper

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60-minute style sit-down interview with

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the guy you know what i mean

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and so i was so glad that we did that

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and then i got to sit down with him

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outside

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of his home in florida afterwards kind

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of casual just talking getting b-roll

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and stuff

285
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and having him he was so funny he's so

286
00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:34,720
pragmatic he's going

287
00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:37,760
well you know james uh you i gotta i

288
00:10:41,190 --> 00:10:39,120
gotta we have this old term

289
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:41,200
new pilots we gotta kick the tires we're

290
00:10:43,829 --> 00:10:42,640
gonna get out there on the tarmac and

291
00:10:46,069 --> 00:10:43,839
kick the tires

292
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:46,079
i was like what do you mean by that he's

293
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:47,200
like well i don't know what

294
00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:48,640
what it is we saw because i never had

295
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:50,240
the opportunity to go out and kick the

296
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:51,680
tires of this thing

297
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:52,880
like how do we need to know this thing

298
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:55,600
has tires but he said you know it was

299
00:10:59,430 --> 00:10:55,920
just

300
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:59,440
wonderful time we went out to dinner

301
00:11:02,069 --> 00:11:00,000
afterwards

302
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:02,079
and then we kept in touch for a few

303
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:03,120
months after

304
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:04,959
and unfortunately as you well know he

305
00:11:10,790 --> 00:11:06,560
passed so

306
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:10,800
um the last image i have of robert

307
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:15,279
friend he was on the dance floor

308
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,959
probably we did an interview sit down

309
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,640
interview at our place

310
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:21,200
at a look shoot location in los angeles

311
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:22,320
we're like well we're going to go out to

312
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:23,760
dinner we had a long shoot day

313
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:27,040
we got to dinner and at this place uh

314
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:28,079
you know thinking that he was going to

315
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:30,000
decline because he was in his 90s i said

316
00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:31,519
you know we're going to go if you'd like

317
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:33,040
to join us you know

318
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:35,440
oh i'd love to so he goes to this

319
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:36,399
restaurant

320
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:37,920
and they're serving drinks and we're all

321
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,320
like having some cocktails and

322
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:42,480
having food and next thing i know he's

323
00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:43,600
up on the dance floor

324
00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:45,839
with like a couple of production

325
00:11:48,310 --> 00:11:47,600
assistants and he's boogie down i kid

326
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:48,320
you not

327
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:51,120
on the dance floor until like midnight

328
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:51,839
and then

329
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:55,440
he jumps in this fancy cadillac and

330
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,120
zooms off into the night

331
00:12:01,590 --> 00:12:00,240
and that's the last i ever saw that's

332
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:01,600
awesome

333
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:04,399
yeah you're a really good sense of humor

334
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:05,600
he's sorry

335
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:08,240
oh i was just gonna say you can see that

336
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:09,279
when he's kind of

337
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:12,320
battling back and forth with you uh in

338
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:13,279
the movie and

339
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:16,000
you know says it's more you know i don't

340
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:17,600
want to get too much into it to reveal

341
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,480
much but

342
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,200
he's got that weird sense that we're you

343
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:23,120
can't tell whether he's trying to drop

344
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:24,000
secret hints to

345
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:26,240
you of something he knows that he can't

346
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:27,279
really say

347
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:29,120
and he did the same when we were

348
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,959
questioning him and it's this weird vibe

349
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:32,800
but he's got kind of a smirk like he's

350
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:33,360
trying to like

351
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,480
he's in on the joke

352
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:38,160
i said to him we'll never forget it we

353
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:39,680
were walking from we did i did a couple

354
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:41,440
of interviews one in a hangar in los

355
00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:43,040
angeles and then another one

356
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:45,920
who did the sit down and after the

357
00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:47,200
interview in the hangar

358
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,800
we were walking back from the hangar to

359
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:50,880
the airport and

360
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:54,399
across the tarmac and i said you know um

361
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:56,959
colonel i have a sneaky suspicion that

362
00:13:00,150 --> 00:12:58,800
deep down inside

363
00:13:01,829 --> 00:13:00,160
you know a lot more than what you're

364
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:01,839
sharing and he's like

365
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,240
looked at me he goes well i've already

366
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:06,160
gone deep down inside and i'm telling

367
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:07,040
you right now

368
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,800
like he just had this like really funny

369
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:10,800
comeback and we had we had a good laugh

370
00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:13,360
and he had a wonderful sense of humor

371
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:14,560
wonderful sense of humor

372
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,839
yeah so the most the most poignant

373
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,440
statements he made to me

374
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:21,600
was what happened on the night of the

375
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:23,680
two consecutive weekends in july

376
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:26,720
over uh over the capitol

377
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:29,920
that's even a puzzle yeah um

378
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,040
well the b-25 footage was amazing

379
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:35,279
and you know throughout production you

380
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:36,720
know it was great because you would

381
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:38,720
periodically send me you know some

382
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:40,560
photos and and video of what you were up

383
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:42,160
to during the process

384
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,760
you sent me that video of you climbing

385
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,279
around in that b25 and

386
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:47,120
the flight you got to do that was so

387
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:50,000
epic i'm jealous

388
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:51,440
you know it's really funny we had a

389
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:53,680
couple of uh lee spiegel had helped

390
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:56,800
locate a b25 and and

391
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,880
when i was in florida interviewing

392
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:00,240
coleman

393
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,399
we had this cameraman uh uh david west

394
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:06,800
and he's a phenomenal camera guy and and

395
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:09,040
he literally

396
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:10,399
we looked at each other in the middle of

397
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:12,079
the interview and i looked at him and i

398
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:13,199
said this is going to be the opening

399
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,480
scene of the movie

400
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:16,240
and we're going to rent a b25 of course

401
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:19,040
we you know it was like this really

402
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,560
pie in the sky idea at the time but it

403
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:22,079
took about five years but

404
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,959
you know we did we we rented that plane

405
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:26,240
and i actually called the company

406
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,760
because we had two options and one of

407
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:29,199
the outfits looked like

408
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:31,199
more polished and more kind of corporate

409
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:33,120
and the plane was sparkly clean and kept

410
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:33,920
in a hangar

411
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:35,680
and the other one was sort of outside

412
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:37,360
and a little more you know

413
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:39,760
slightly um what's the word i'm looking

414
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,560
for

415
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,720
and i want to say run down but just a

416
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,639
little green weathered yes

417
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:46,480
weathered gritty you know it looked like

418
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:48,320
these were the real you know

419
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:51,199
real dudes doing it you know so i called

420
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:51,680
them up

421
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,560
and i said gentlemen um

422
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:57,760
thank you by the way for getting back to

423
00:15:02,069 --> 00:15:00,240
me uh if you guys can't fly

424
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:02,079
flat out at treetop level then i have to

425
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:04,800
go somewhere else and they said

426
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:10,790
so yeah so then i got to go in the in

427
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:12,320
the bubbles the front nose

428
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:14,000
it's got like machine guns it's all

429
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:15,519
glass

430
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:17,920
and to get to it i had to come down from

431
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:19,760
the cockpit area which is rather

432
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,199
small it's not that plain it's not that

433
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:23,199
big i had to climb down and i had to go

434
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:24,000
through this tube

435
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,560
it's very narrow tube i had to sort of

436
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:28,800
inch my way through there like a worm

437
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,800
and uh you know shoulders rubbing on

438
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:33,360
both sides and i finally pop out

439
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:35,839
into this like bubble this glass bubble

440
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:37,600
and the machine gun's still there

441
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,440
and i can't tell you like the feeling i

442
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:40,959
had was like

443
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:42,959
like you know like you're in this bubble

444
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,560
floating above i mean it's

445
00:15:47,749 --> 00:15:46,399
you feel really vulnerable like you know

446
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:47,759
if anything goes wrong you're the first

447
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:48,639
person to

448
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:51,600
to get it right but i'd be a little

449
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:52,800
scared

450
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:55,600
yeah and then we and then the plane yeah

451
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:02,870
i told i told you know my partner

452
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:03,519
rebecca

453
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:06,959
and and and uh in my i think my son was

454
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:08,800
old enough at that point yeah he was i

455
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:09,360
told him

456
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,720
what i did like after the fact anyway

457
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:14,079
yeah it was it was pretty cool but i

458
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:17,040
mean what a what a dynamic opening right

459
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,800
so awesome i mean that footage is

460
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:20,320
priceless it really is

461
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:22,399
so you worked with some pretty great

462
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:24,000
people on this film

463
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,360
you know you mentioned our buddy lee

464
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:27,680
spiegel of course um your awesome

465
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:28,720
narrator

466
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:32,320
peter coyote and shock valet

467
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:35,279
so i'd love to hear how and when jacques

468
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,000
got involved

469
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:39,040
and what it was like working with him

470
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:41,839
so uh i had made several attempts over

471
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:43,839
the last couple of decades to reach jock

472
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:44,399
because

473
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:47,920
jacques lived in san francisco

474
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:50,800
and i live just north and uh

475
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:52,959
unsuccessfully and then

476
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,800
uh lee became involved with the project

477
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,399
and he's like well i know jacques quite

478
00:17:01,990 --> 00:17:00,399
well from the 1978

479
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,000
united nations event that we did

480
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:04,559
together that he organized

481
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:07,360
and um i think i could you know set up a

482
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:08,799
meeting

483
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:10,559
at the time lee was out in california

484
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:11,919
working with me and

485
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:14,880
uh and he did and um initially jacques

486
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:15,360
said

487
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:17,760
you know he was sort of standoffish

488
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:19,120
about the whole thing

489
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:22,160
um non-committal

490
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,839
and then he uh

491
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,679
he said i think he agreed to the fact

492
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:29,760
that he would comment on

493
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:32,240
a certain participation of the

494
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:33,840
rockefeller initiative

495
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:35,919
and that's how it kind of got started

496
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:38,000
and then jacques came out to the studio

497
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,080
and we were editing the movie

498
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,240
at the end of a dirt road in a little

499
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:44,240
like shoebox

500
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:46,559
shack it had no electricity no running

501
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:47,600
water no toilet

502
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:50,160
and no internet and so we had to run a

503
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:51,919
wire out from the main house into this

504
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,880
garden

505
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:54,559
and and we were editing there and

506
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:56,559
initially it was just because i couldn't

507
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:56,960
find

508
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:59,039
anything else to rent in in the area

509
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,160
where i live

510
00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:02,000
uh and it was sort of a temporary spot

511
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,160
but then i realized like

512
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,480
we got so much good isolation and and

513
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:08,799
work done in this magical little spot

514
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:10,240
jacques would start coming out on the

515
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,760
weekends just kind of checking out what

516
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:13,120
we were sitting on

517
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:14,559
and he looked at the rua stuff and he

518
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,240
looked at the socorro stuff and he was

519
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,480
intimately involved with socorro because

520
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:20,480
he was with dr heineck at wright

521
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:22,160
patterson air force base about two or

522
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:22,960
three days

523
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:25,200
prior to that event happening and he was

524
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,559
explaining to heinek

525
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,640
look you know you've got to look at the

526
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,480
psychological cases that are that are

527
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:32,240
written off as part of project blue book

528
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,919
because those represent

529
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:36,000
close encounters of the third kind close

530
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:37,039
encounters

531
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:38,799
and jacques was telling me there's all

532
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:39,919
these files you've got to look in the

533
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,840
cycle that explain the way psychological

534
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:43,360
and he was explaining what was happening

535
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:45,280
in france and the wave of landings and

536
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:47,919
close encounters in france and um and he

537
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:49,360
got this whole tour of wright patterson

538
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:51,360
air force base and it was 1964

539
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,559
in april and then literally i think a

540
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,679
day or two later

541
00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:57,679
you know the phone call comes in lane

542
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:59,360
and it's according to mexico and

543
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:01,280
jacques so that case was very very close

544
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:03,120
to jacques so he saw that

545
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:04,960
i had spent five years going back and

546
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:07,360
forth to socorro got to know the family

547
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:10,480
his wife mary the daughter diane

548
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,799
the son michael um his co-workers i

549
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,320
interviewed all of them i mean it took a

550
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,400
while like as an outsider that we're not

551
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:18,960
like come on into our town and interview

552
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,080
it you know i mean it

553
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,240
really took a while and i and i got in

554
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:24,880
with mary the wife um

555
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:27,679
because actually of a document i found

556
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,960
at the national archives with ray

557
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:30,640
stanford about the actual symbol on the

558
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:31,520
craft

559
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,200
so i kind of broke the ice with her on

560
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:35,440
that but but anyway so jacques saw all

561
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:36,160
this

562
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:39,919
you know i want to help you

563
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:42,880
put this together accurately and so he

564
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:44,480
became more and more involved and then

565
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:46,000
finally he was doing marathon edit

566
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:46,720
sessions

567
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:49,679
with us in the studio and when it got to

568
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,720
roswell

569
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:53,280
he would sit back in the in the studio

570
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:54,640
and he would sit he would just sit back

571
00:19:58,220 --> 00:19:56,080
in the back and he'd go

572
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,230
just the facts ma'am

573
00:20:03,110 --> 00:19:59,840
[Laughter]

574
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:03,120
be really careful just the facts

575
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:06,400
anyway so and that was it and so

576
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:09,760
jock eventually uh invited us into

577
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:12,080
a lab in silicon valley and and it was

578
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:13,600
just you know i mean i was just

579
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,640
gobsmacked

580
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:17,120
quite honestly by the whole process and

581
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,640
i feel incredibly

582
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,400
privileged to have had the opportunity

583
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:22,799
and developed a lunch a relationship

584
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:27,360
and it all uh goes back to lee spiegel

585
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:30,640
gotta say i mean it would have been if

586
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:32,799
i had a time machine think of how

587
00:20:35,669 --> 00:20:34,000
awesome it would be

588
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:35,679
to party with lee spiegel and jacques

589
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,039
valet in the 70s

590
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:40,080
that would be awesome totally

591
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:48,470
um no i do like how in in the credits

592
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:48,799
lee

593
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:51,760
uh these credits highlight that he was

594
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:52,480
the uh

595
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:55,360
one person at the united nations uh

596
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:56,400
presenting

597
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:59,600
ufo information at the end um it's kind

598
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,200
of this

599
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:03,120
great thing that i i think a lot of

600
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:05,600
people don't realize about lee they know

601
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,159
he's a

602
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,080
was a huffington post journalist that

603
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:10,240
was you know the most vocal

604
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:13,280
um person out there writing about ufos

605
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:14,400
but he has a

606
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:18,080
incredible back story um

607
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,640
tied into a lot of really major breaking

608
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:22,720
changes and how we research and look at

609
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,159
ufos so

610
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:26,960
um great person to work with yeah very

611
00:21:28,390 --> 00:21:28,000
cool that you did put that in the

612
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:28,400
credits

613
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:29,840
because lee is a badass and people

614
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:31,840
should know that yeah well

615
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:34,159
really quickly maureen to try to expand

616
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:35,039
on that

617
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:38,320
i had uh reached out to you at one point

618
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:39,760
to see if you wanted to come on for a

619
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:41,520
year or two on the project to be an

620
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,960
archivist because my sister

621
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,200
who normally i work with was becoming a

622
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,960
nurse she got certified she was moving

623
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:48,720
to different locations and

624
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,400
and she wasn't available so i was like

625
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:52,240
you know i think i reached out to you

626
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:54,880
i reached out to a couple of people and

627
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:56,080
and long story short

628
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:58,159
she ended up taking a hiatus did i reach

629
00:22:02,470 --> 00:21:59,280
out to youtube

630
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:02,480
jason yeah i ended up taking my sister

631
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:03,919
ended up saying you know what i'm just

632
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,200
going to not go to school

633
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,520
i'm sorry i'm not going to go to uh

634
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,360
transition to this new nursing job

635
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:10,799
i'm going to take a hiatus for a year or

636
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,280
two and i'm going to work solely on

637
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:16,000
finding archival material well fast

638
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,840
forward about six months

639
00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:19,360
uh i think lee had been out to

640
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:20,799
california a couple of times he was kind

641
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:22,000
of going back and forth from new york

642
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,039
out to california

643
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:25,760
and he was really really funny as well

644
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,520
the deer they're coming to get me

645
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,880
you know they're on the roof i'm like

646
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,640
dear don't climb on the roof lee what

647
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:32,559
are you talking about

648
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:35,440
well anyway so fast forward probably six

649
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:36,080
months

650
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:38,159
and kelly has been sending me links to

651
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:39,360
certain things that she's finding

652
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,360
that's her sole purpose is looking for

653
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:43,280
archived material and she's going at it

654
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:46,000
you know eight ten twelve hours a day so

655
00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:47,520
she finds this stuff and it's labeled

656
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:50,559
like ufo conference that was it

657
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:52,480
and she every day she said me like hey

658
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:54,080
is this of interest do you like this

659
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:56,320
is this anything you want i can go after

660
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:58,080
it here well she said to me lincoln

661
00:23:02,310 --> 00:22:59,360
quite honestly like

662
00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,320
nine times out of ten i was i'm i'm like

663
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:03,919
maybe that that's oh that's been beaten

664
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,640
to death

665
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:06,400
then i like kind of reluctantly clicked

666
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:08,080
on all these links and i click on this

667
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:09,679
one like ufo conference and i'm liking

668
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,559
it myself

669
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,240
ufo conference like i don't really want

670
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:13,919
to feature a ufo conference

671
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:16,240
you know you know in this film well i

672
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:17,840
clicked on it reluctantly

673
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,480
and i'm looking and i'm going oh my god

674
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:22,960
this looks like the united nations

675
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:26,799
this is what so i i verify it

676
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:29,039
this is the event that no one has ever

677
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:31,039
seen at the united nations

678
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:34,240
and i send a small clip of it with a

679
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:35,120
stamp on it

680
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,440
of the company that we got it from to

681
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:39,520
lee and i said are you sitting down

682
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:42,240
click the link and of course we found

683
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:42,559
the

684
00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:45,039
unedited two-hour presentation that

685
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:46,159
united nations

686
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:50,720
that get done 40-plus years earlier and

687
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:53,360
both jacques and lee were so floored and

688
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,000
we were just

689
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:56,159
jumping for joy and then what it took to

690
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:57,840
actually get our hands on the physical

691
00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:58,720
like

692
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:01,440
i could go on until you guys are written

693
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:02,640
but we got it

694
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:04,880
that's awesome and i will say i mean the

695
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:07,279
archival footage in this film is a big

696
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,080
part

697
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,840
of what makes it really special i mean

698
00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:11,520
kelly did an amazing job

699
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:13,279
and it's some of my favorite stuff in

700
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:14,640
the film it really helps

701
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,000
tell the story yeah i i

702
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:21,039
agree and also i was super bummed that i

703
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:21,840
could not

704
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,960
uh say yes to that opportunity

705
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,559
because i would have loved to have been

706
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:28,320
part of the film it was just bad timing

707
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:29,679
but looking at what she did

708
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,799
looks like um she did a fabulous job

709
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:34,720
with acquiring all these old materials

710
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:35,120
and

711
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:40,559
ufos will notice like well a lot of this

712
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,640
stuff has never been seen before

713
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,120
but for new people like this this is

714
00:24:50,070 --> 00:24:47,039
groundbreaking that this is

715
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:50,080
able to be seen by the public and in the

716
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:52,799
depth that it is

717
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:55,200
well you guys you remember remember when

718
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:57,440
out when i know what i saw came out

719
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:00,640
back in 2009 i think it was

720
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,320
yeah almost 2010 um it was going to get

721
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:06,480
picked up by lionsgate and lionsgate was

722
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:07,200
going to

723
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:08,720
you know just global distribution

724
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:11,120
footprint and i'm super duper excited

725
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:14,320
and then uh they ultimately took a pass

726
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:15,520
on it because they were like you know

727
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,720
the production values are a little

728
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:18,240
substandard and we're gonna go ahead and

729
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:19,279
take a pass and i was of course

730
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:20,000
devastated

731
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:21,279
but i said i won't make that same

732
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:23,279
mistake and so this time even with the

733
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,559
archive material

734
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,960
i went after the not just a digital copy

735
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:28,400
but the original source

736
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:30,080
so if i could find the filmed footage i

737
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:31,760
would pay to have the film footage

738
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,640
digitized and and then once i got the

739
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:35,919
footage i hired

740
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:38,559
specialists to either color correct or

741
00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:40,240
do

742
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:41,840
a pass with it with this filter called

743
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:43,840
neat filter was incredibly complicated

744
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,320
and

745
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,320
required a lot of processing time but it

746
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,840
really cleaned up a lot of the archive

747
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:49,760
footage i mean the archive folder got

748
00:25:52,710 --> 00:25:51,360
was really good but what a difference it

749
00:25:53,350 --> 00:25:52,720
would make because i wanted it to look

750
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:53,360
good too

751
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,240
you know and not cringe every time some

752
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:58,000
archive footage came on

753
00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:00,080
that the sound and then and then on top

754
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:01,279
of it because it was going to be in

755
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:03,840
movie theaters

756
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:06,880
um yeah a little cry here

757
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:08,799
yeah yeah because it was going to be in

758
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,320
movie theaters um

759
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,400
everyone was saying look man you have

760
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:14,480
got to

761
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:17,840
engineer it's going to make or break

762
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:19,120
your success in the theater

763
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:21,279
you cannot have crap sound the image

764
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,400
quality is one thing but

765
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:24,240
bad sound is going to put people off

766
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:25,520
they're going to be irritated they're

767
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:26,720
not going to know what it is they don't

768
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,840
like about your movie

769
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:29,600
but trust me they will tune out and

770
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:31,200
you'll be missing out

771
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:33,120
hugely like it's like they were saying

772
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:34,480
it's like 60 of a movie

773
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:36,880
so i hired a sound engineer which was an

774
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:37,600
incredibly

775
00:26:41,110 --> 00:26:40,320
you know timely process and expensive

776
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,120
process

777
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,679
but but those little details ended up

778
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:45,520
making just a really significant

779
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:46,480
difference for the film

780
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:49,919
i believe you brought up um one case

781
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:53,279
that i think really highlights and i i

782
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,559
love the placement uh you put this in in

783
00:27:00,149 --> 00:26:58,640
the movie because i think it has a

784
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:00,159
a good message because you're kind of

785
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:02,400
going through all this history and study

786
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:03,200
and showing

787
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:04,559
that this is something the government's

788
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:06,159
taken seriously over the years and

789
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:07,760
there's a lot happening we don't know

790
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:09,440
about behind the scenes

791
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,720
but then you also have this kind of

792
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:14,799
you go over the rua the aerial school

793
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:17,840
incident case and the west hall 66

794
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:20,559
and the power of those interviews at the

795
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:20,960
end

796
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,000
and the chil like the archival uh

797
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,159
words that the kids are saying and to

798
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:28,000
what they feel now and how it's this

799
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,960
message of

800
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:30,480
i think it ties into a lot of the

801
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,159
nuclear connection too about

802
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:34,240
we're doing things that are not great

803
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:35,679
for this planet and we're seeing that

804
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:36,240
now

805
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:39,679
in full force with uh the way

806
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:42,320
you know the global warming and and tons

807
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:43,360
of other

808
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:46,399
sort of environmental tasks so

809
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:48,880
what was it like for you going to

810
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:49,840
interview these

811
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:53,600
these children as adults in that area

812
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:56,240
well well first what we did is we

813
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:56,720
brought

814
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:58,159
them together with the help of randall

815
00:28:02,470 --> 00:27:59,840
nickerson um

816
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:02,480
we brought them together in los angeles

817
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:02,880
we

818
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:04,880
found them and brought them in from all

819
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:06,480
different areas of the world quite

820
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:07,120
honestly

821
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,799
and i remember at the time i was trying

822
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:10,640
to justify it to

823
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:13,600
you know uh the investors like you know

824
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,720
they're like oh you're going to fly

825
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:16,480
these people in they mean a ufo landing

826
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:17,520
in africa and they are

827
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,840
come on like that i'm going no just look

828
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:21,520
at this archive materials

829
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:24,159
that john mack look at these kids you

830
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:24,720
know

831
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,679
that was a tough sell but um bringing

832
00:28:30,149 --> 00:28:29,200
them together for the first time in 20

833
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:30,159
years and and

834
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:33,200
and you know coincidentally they a lot

835
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:34,559
of them happen to be like wait a minute

836
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:35,840
we were standing right next to each

837
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:37,679
other you remember we were holding hands

838
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,600
like wow and i knew it was such a

839
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:43,360
special day and i said to the people

840
00:28:47,909 --> 00:28:44,320
that were

841
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:47,919
big kind of crew

842
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:50,399
i explained sort of you know what this

843
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:52,880
day actually meant and what had actually

844
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,919
gone down and it was a magical well it

845
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:57,520
was a magical three days three or four

846
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:58,960
days that we got to spend

847
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,960
with them and there was one thing that

848
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:02,720
i'd like to share with you guys now that

849
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:03,039
i

850
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:21,279
reflect

851
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,240
and really analyze what had gone down as

852
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,320
children and as they got older

853
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:28,320
you know adults and young young adults

854
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:29,360
and professionals

855
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:31,120
they had time they had a couple decades

856
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,640
to really think about it reflect on it

857
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,039
and just absorb it

858
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,919
and they said have you ever been out in

859
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:39,520
the wild

860
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:43,039
uh

861
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:46,240
you know a rare sighting of a wild

862
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,200
animal

863
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:49,039
and they're like this is there's this

864
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:50,720
moment of of intrigue

865
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,000
of mystery where

866
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:56,320
time is frozen and you're just as

867
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:57,360
interested in

868
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:01,440
there's just that moment where

869
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:05,600
the clock stops and it's benign

870
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:09,120
it's curious each side is

871
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:12,559
equally as bewildered as the other

872
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:13,919
they said that's what it was like with

873
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:16,080
the creatures they were just as

874
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:17,760
fascinated to learn about the children

875
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:19,200
as the children were them

876
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:20,559
and then they also said that there are

877
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,360
these these uh

878
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,200
because telephone poles you know big

879
00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:27,200
logs that would define the outer

880
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:28,880
perimeter of the playground

881
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:30,880
and of course children being children

882
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:32,799
though they weren't allowed to go any

883
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:33,760
further than

884
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:37,039
than those logs because of like

885
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:39,200
it was unmanicured unmowed and there

886
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:40,799
were dangerous snakes and stuff out in

887
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:41,679
the fields

888
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:43,520
so what the children would do is they

889
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:44,720
would go all the way to the outer

890
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,600
perimeter

891
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:47,679
of the playground and they would skip

892
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:50,159
along the logs

893
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:53,600
and there were testimony children saying

894
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:57,600
as adults now that these creatures

895
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:00,960
beings were mimicking the children

896
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:03,440
skipping along the tops of the logs next

897
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:04,640
to them

898
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:07,120
like yeah like almost kind of slow

899
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:08,640
motion and i said well did they have a

900
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:09,519
leg

901
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:10,720
didn't really quite see they're almost

902
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:13,360
like float but they were jewelry

903
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,960
you know uh imitating um

904
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:18,720
you know what the children were doing

905
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:20,880
and i just thought wow that's

906
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:23,200
just beautiful like just think of that

907
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:24,240
that

908
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:27,679
interaction uh

909
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:30,559
um i don't know just and i don't know

910
00:31:33,509 --> 00:31:31,360
why that

911
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:33,519
that description didn't end up in the

912
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:34,880
final cut i guess you could only get so

913
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:36,080
many things in but

914
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:39,600
that was that was

915
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:41,279
one of the most special days of my life

916
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:42,960
and then going to africa

917
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:45,039
and meeting more of the students and

918
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:46,799
going to the actual landing site

919
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:48,640
and then of course getting judy bates

920
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:49,840
who's now the headmistress

921
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:53,039
yeah getting her was a total coup

922
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:53,600
because

923
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:54,960
she's like i'm not gonna go on camera

924
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:57,039
with you but but you can go out and you

925
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:58,000
could film at the

926
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,279
you know in the field and you could do

927
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,200
all this stuff and then

928
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:02,960
right in the middle of filming with her

929
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:05,279
former students here she comes

930
00:32:08,950 --> 00:32:07,440
walks on out and we literally just pivot

931
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:08,960
turn the cameras on her and

932
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:12,159
we got what we got that was awesome yeah

933
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:14,000
the school stuff was definitely uh you

934
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,399
know

935
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,320
some of my favorite stuff in the movie

936
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:18,000
uh there's so much in the movie but the

937
00:32:23,029 --> 00:32:20,000
school stuff is really powerful

938
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:23,039
the testimony the archival footage and i

939
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:23,440
mean

940
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:25,279
not only the children the people who

941
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:27,039
were children now grown

942
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:30,159
but also the adults who were witnesses

943
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,679
you know that stuff was really powerful

944
00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:33,200
to hear so

945
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:35,200
definitely my favorite part of the movie

946
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:36,320
um

947
00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:37,760
i know we've taken a lot of your time so

948
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:39,200
we'll wrap this up but you know

949
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:40,320
something that

950
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:42,720
tugged at my heartstrings uh was seeing

951
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:43,360
the film's

952
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:46,480
dedication you dedicated the film to

953
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:49,679
an icon of ufo research that is the late

954
00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:51,200
great stan friedman

955
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:54,840
um so what made you dedicate the film to

956
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,200
stan

957
00:33:03,669 --> 00:32:59,760
i admired him so much i had so much

958
00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:08,870
i cried for three hours when he died wow

959
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:11,909
it was respect yeah

960
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:15,120
yeah yeah well deserved and i can't

961
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:16,559
think of a better way to cap off that

962
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,120
film

963
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:19,760
and uh you know something else that i do

964
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:21,200
have to mention to people

965
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,399
make sure to watch all the way through

966
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:24,640
the credits because of course

967
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:27,360
you pulled that game where you inserted

968
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:28,480
some of the best

969
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:32,480
content in the end credit sequence so

970
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:33,840
don't turn the movie off when you see

971
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:35,600
the credits start rolling because there

972
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:38,480
is some amazing stuff in there for sure

973
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:42,799
it's a marvel style documentary exactly

974
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,519
exactly well i know you didn't get the

975
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:47,519
theatrical release that you wanted

976
00:33:51,909 --> 00:33:50,000
uh that you tried that you did work

977
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:51,919
really hard and secured for this film

978
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,440
but you know kovid screwed up

979
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,080
a lot of things including this film but

980
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,960
tell us how people can watch the film

981
00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:00,720
so it's a bit available for digital

982
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,240
download uh

983
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:05,519
amazon uh google uh

984
00:34:12,990 --> 00:34:09,359
xbox uh itunes and there's a couple of

985
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:13,000
platforms actually if you go to the

986
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,320
phenomenonfilm.com

987
00:34:17,909 --> 00:34:16,000
it's got a link to all the different

988
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:17,919
platforms and there are

989
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:20,720
only two i believe that include once you

990
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:21,919
digital download

991
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:25,359
about three hours of just wonderful

992
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:28,000
outtakes and additional bonus material

993
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:29,040
that i think people are going to really

994
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:30,960
like i went through a lot

995
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:33,520
a bit long lengthy process putting that

996
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:34,560
together

997
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:36,560
as a bonus package so but again there's

998
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:38,560
only a couple of platforms that allows

999
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:40,560
you to do bonus material and i think

1000
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:42,960
it's vimeo has it

1001
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:45,440
vimeo has it yeah you go to you go to

1002
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:47,359
the

1003
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:48,399
and that'll phenomenonfilm.com you

1004
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:51,119
through that yeah

1005
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:53,440
awesome well james thank you so much for

1006
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:54,879
taking the time to hang out with us

1007
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:57,839
and uh dude so happy this day has

1008
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:58,880
finally come

1009
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:01,359
glad the film is seeing the light of day

1010
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:02,960
and thank you so much for sharing it

1011
00:35:07,589 --> 00:35:04,800
with us i mean it's been so much fun

1012
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:07,599
going along this ride with you

1013
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,119
thank you thanks for having me on i'm

1014
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:11,520
sorry i broke up i just stanton friedman

1015
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:12,880
and edgar mitchell

1016
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:15,680
two people that we lost and i i i was

1017
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,599
profoundly affected by the

1018
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:19,839
by their passing just profoundly

1019
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:21,040
affected

1020
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:22,640
and so i was so glad to have the

1021
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:24,400
opportunity to dedicate the film to stan

1022
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:26,000
freeman i have so much respect for that

1023
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:27,280
guy

1024
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:33,670
it was so great to catch up with james

1025
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,359
today and talk about his new film

1026
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,200
the phenomenon is out now so if you're

1027
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:38,720
at all interested in ufos

1028
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:40,320
definitely check it out thanks so much

1029
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:42,000
for joining us today make sure to

1030
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:43,680
subscribe to the rogue planet youtube

1031
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:44,079
channel

1032
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:46,000
if you haven't already and find us on

1033
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:47,520
social media cause that's how you'll

1034
00:35:56,829 --> 00:35:50,079
know when we post new content

1035
00:35:56,839 --> 00:36:00,950
future